Comments on: The efficacy of anti-depressants http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/ a blog by Jim Bliss Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:32:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Andy http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1168 Andy Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:48:07 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1168 I too was on anti-depressants for about two years, and stopped taking them just a month or two before this story came out. So it was quite strange for me to see all these headlines about them "not working" when it's obvious to me that my life has been turned around. I would never have been able to get to my final year of university where I am now, and probably hardly have ever left the house. Clearly though doctors prescribe way too many of them, you simply have to walk into a GPs office and say "I'm depressed" and they'll throw a prescription at you straight away. Maybe there should be some kind of "test" although I'm not sure how that would work. I am also interested in CBD although unfortunately was never offered it. I can't remember the exact statistics but I read recently that a majority of doctors would rather prescribe CBT (or other "talking therapies") rather than or alongside pills, but they simply dont have the resources and waiting lists are often 6 months to a year. So it's pretty clear where the government should be spending their money... I too was on anti-depressants for about two years, and stopped taking them just a month or two before this story came out. So it was quite strange for me to see all these headlines about them “not working” when it’s obvious to me that my life has been turned around. I would never have been able to get to my final year of university where I am now, and probably hardly have ever left the house. Clearly though doctors prescribe way too many of them, you simply have to walk into a GPs office and say “I’m depressed” and they’ll throw a prescription at you straight away. Maybe there should be some kind of “test” although I’m not sure how that would work. I am also interested in CBD although unfortunately was never offered it. I can’t remember the exact statistics but I read recently that a majority of doctors would rather prescribe CBT (or other “talking therapies”) rather than or alongside pills, but they simply dont have the resources and waiting lists are often 6 months to a year. So it’s pretty clear where the government should be spending their money…

]]> By: Phil http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1167 Phil Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:05:28 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1167 <i>Then of course we have the widely documented effectiveness of SSRIs in the treatment of animals, where the argument for a placebo effect is rather problematic.</i> Homeopaths can and do say the same. But I'm not saying that taking a tablet can't directly affect your mental state - this blog would (ahem) not be the best place to make that claim. I do think the placebo effect is real, and that in some situations it's probably more consistent and reliable than the pharmacological effect. Then of course we have the widely documented effectiveness of SSRIs in the treatment of animals, where the argument for a placebo effect is rather problematic.

Homeopaths can and do say the same.

But I’m not saying that taking a tablet can’t directly affect your mental state – this blog would (ahem) not be the best place to make that claim. I do think the placebo effect is real, and that in some situations it’s probably more consistent and reliable than the pharmacological effect.

]]> By: Joel http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1166 Joel Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:50:10 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1166 Incidentally, those tempted by medication for depression might want to try a daily dose of 200 micrograms of selenium. Selenium is not a "cure" for depression, but lack of it could be a cause. Selenium is very low in UK soil and most people don't get enough of it. Incidentally, those tempted by medication for depression might want to try a daily dose of 200 micrograms of selenium. Selenium is not a “cure” for depression, but lack of it could be a cause. Selenium is very low in UK soil and most people don’t get enough of it.

]]> By: Joel http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1165 Joel Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:38:40 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1165 When I was an editor on 'The Lancet' there was another editor who put to me that placebo is one of the most successful drugs ever invented. It has significant results in a wide-range of conditions and costs hardly anything to produce. You can in fact regard all double-blind trials as actually trials of placebo. When I was an editor on ‘The Lancet’ there was another editor who put to me that placebo is one of the most successful drugs ever invented. It has significant results in a wide-range of conditions and costs hardly anything to produce. You can in fact regard all double-blind trials as actually trials of placebo.

]]> By: Mike Power http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1164 Mike Power Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:21:01 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1164 I am old enough to remember the old style antidepressants. They were not very effective, took weeks to produce what little benefits they did and inflicted truly awful side-effects. The new style medication was, for people like me, a absolute revelation. Placebo? Why, I wonder, didn't the old style antidepressants have as powerful a 'placebo' effect as the new ones? Strange, no? Then of course we have the widely documented effectiveness of SSRIs in the treatment of animals, where the argument for a placebo effect is rather problematic. But even if we fully accept the findings of the recent study (which I do not) we must realise that the placebo effect does not mean that had these drugs never been developed, widely praised and thought effective by patients and doctors we could have got the same antidepressant effect by simply giving the patient a sugar pill (see my previous point above). The placebo effect doesn't work on quite such a simplistic level as that. Anyway, jump on the couch and talk amongst yourselves by all means, I'll keep taking the pills when I need them :) I am old enough to remember the old style antidepressants. They were not very effective, took weeks to produce what little benefits they did and inflicted truly awful side-effects. The new style medication was, for people like me, a absolute revelation. Placebo? Why, I wonder, didn’t the old style antidepressants have as powerful a ‘placebo’ effect as the new ones? Strange, no? Then of course we have the widely documented effectiveness of SSRIs in the treatment of animals, where the argument for a placebo effect is rather problematic.

But even if we fully accept the findings of the recent study (which I do not) we must realise that the placebo effect does not mean that had these drugs never been developed, widely praised and thought effective by patients and doctors we could have got the same antidepressant effect by simply giving the patient a sugar pill (see my previous point above). The placebo effect doesn’t work on quite such a simplistic level as that.

Anyway, jump on the couch and talk amongst yourselves by all means, I’ll keep taking the pills when I need them :)

]]> By: Phil http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1163 Phil Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:50:50 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1163 The placebo effect is really, really interesting. You can even test it, to some extent - a saline injection is a better anaesthetic than a sugar pill, and blue sugar pills are better anti-depressants than red ones. We're really suggestible creatures. It's a bit hard to do a double-blind controlled study of therapy, unfortunately. I'll swear on a stack of copies of <i>the Interpretation of Dreams</i> that therapy works - I've seen it. But I don't know that it works better than nothing - because, of course, I haven't seen those same people live through those same years without therapy. The placebo effect is really, really interesting. You can even test it, to some extent – a saline injection is a better anaesthetic than a sugar pill, and blue sugar pills are better anti-depressants than red ones. We’re really suggestible creatures.

It’s a bit hard to do a double-blind controlled study of therapy, unfortunately. I’ll swear on a stack of copies of the Interpretation of Dreams that therapy works – I’ve seen it. But I don’t know that it works better than nothing – because, of course, I haven’t seen those same people live through those same years without therapy.

]]> By: Gyrus http://numero57.net/2008/02/28/the-efficacy-of-anti-depressants/#comment-1162 Gyrus Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:52:43 +0000 http://numero57.net/?p=243#comment-1162 I wonder how many incidences like this it will take to shift the popular image of therapy as routinely ineffectual, whereas---side-effects and philosophical objections aside---at least these targetted no-nonsense drugs <em>work</em>. Therapy's generally more expensive, but---at least it is, or can be, <em>interesting</em>. I wonder how many incidences like this it will take to shift the popular image of therapy as routinely ineffectual, whereas—side-effects and philosophical objections aside—at least these targetted no-nonsense drugs work. Therapy’s generally more expensive, but—at least it is, or can be, interesting.

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