The Euston Manifesto (critique #1)
I’ve recently been thinking about my time as a philosophy undergraduate. Mostly this has been inspired by the fact that I’m considering a return to academia in the not-too-distant future… becoming a fulltime philosopher again for a spell. It’s a dirty job but someone’s got to do it. And frankly, I’m not sure I trust anyone else to do it properly.
The second reason for my undergraduate reminiscing was The Euston Manifesto. For those of you who are unaware of this document, it’s a recently published political manifesto (so recent it hasn’t happened yet… the official launch date is May 25th). It has as a preamble…
We are democrats and progressives. We propose here a fresh political alignment. Many of us belong to the Left, but the principles that we set out are not exclusive. We reach out, rather, beyond the socialist Left towards egalitarian liberals and others of unambiguous democratic commitment. Indeed, the reconfiguration of progressive opinion that we aim for involves drawing a line between the forces of the Left that remain true to its authentic values, and currents that have lately shown themselves rather too flexible about these values. It involves making common cause with genuine democrats, whether socialist or not.
Upon reading this, I was instantly transported back to first year political philosophy seminars. I had a lecturer who would have used the phrase “wet western wanker” when referring to the author of such a paragraph. In fact it’s precisely the sort of thing he’d have written himself as a parody of “wet western wank”. And I guarantee he would have met the first sentence, We are democrats and progressives, with a cynical, “well who the fuck isn’t?” I’m not condoning his attitude… I’m just saying…
I Won’t Be Signing Up
And not just because it’s full of wet western wank. In fact, what I find most objectionable about this document is the other stuff… the pro-globalisation stance that almost gets obscured by the meaningless platitudes. But before I get into the detail of the manifesto, I’d like to point out that the first time I visited its website, my PC informed me “The website bloggers4labour.org would like to set a cookie. Will you allow it?” Then, the very first name that caught my eye when glancing at the signatories was ‘Oliver Kamm’.
So it got off to a bad start. Though the actual content of the document merely compounds the badness.
The Euston Manifesto is comprised of a preamble, 15 statements of principle, a bunch of elaborations and a short conclusion. It can be read in full on this webpage. I’m not going to analyse it line by line, or even principle by principle. There’s much that’s bland and uninteresting but which I wouldn’t have a major problem signing if it featured in a manifesto alongside some genuinely good ideas. Instead I’m just going to highlight what I see as the serious problems with it… the inherent self-contradictions and the dodgy wrong-headedness.
Where better to start, then, than Principle 5? It’s the worst offender, and alone makes for a flawed and deeply objectionable manifesto, the signing of which puts a person on very much the wrong side of the barbed-wire fence.
5) Development for freedom.
We stand for global economic development-as-freedom and against structural economic oppression and environmental degradation. The current expansion of global markets and free trade must not be allowed to serve the narrow interests of a small corporate elite in the developed world and their associates in developing countries. The benefits of large-scale development through the expansion of global trade ought to be distributed as widely as possible in order to serve the social and economic interests of workers, farmers and consumers in all countries. Globalization must mean global social integration and a commitment to social justice. We support radical reform of the major institutions of global economic governance (World Trade Organization, International Monetary Fund, World Bank) to achieve these goals, and we support fair trade, more aid, debt cancellation and the campaign to Make Poverty History. Development can bring growth in life-expectancy and in the enjoyment of life, easing burdensome labour and shortening the working day. It can bring freedom to youth, possibilities of exploration to those of middle years, and security to old age. It enlarges horizons and the opportunities for travel, and helps make strangers into friends. Global development must be pursued in a manner consistent with environmentally sustainable growth.
Ibid.
OK. First off. If you talk about “environmentally sustainable growth” you are (knowingly or not) peddling a dangerous lie. There is a widely-held misconception that the findings of The Club of Rome and their famous report; The Limits to Growth (download an abstract in RTF format); have somehow been discredited. That there are in fact, no limits to growth and that growth can carry on “sustainably” (i.e. indefinitely). This is simply not the case.*
I’d go further and say that the philosophy of sustainable growth is a powerfully regressive one which ranks alongside fascism in its potential to generate human suffering. But it’s not just the last line of Principle 5 that’s problematic. I find the opening statement little short of mind-blowing. “We stand for global economic development-as-freedom…” Are they serious? And if they are, then it’s perhaps no accident that they decided to use the rhetoric of totalitarianism to express it.
I’m sorry, but no matter how many empty platitudes you pad it with (against environmental degradation… once again; “well who the fuck isn’t?”) the decision to equate freedom and economic development proves that The Euston Manifesto is little more than an attempt to recast rapacious capitalism as “the friendly, cuddly” planet-despoiling philosophy.
6) Opposing anti-Americanism.
We reject without qualification the anti-Americanism now infecting so much left-liberal (and some conservative) thinking. This is not a case of seeing the US as a model society. We are aware of its problems and failings. But these are shared in some degree with all of the developed world. The United States of America is a great country and nation. It is the home of a strong democracy with a noble tradition behind it and lasting constitutional and social achievements to its name. Its peoples have produced a vibrant culture that is the pleasure, the source-book and the envy of millions. That US foreign policy has often opposed progressive movements and governments and supported regressive and authoritarian ones does not justify generalized prejudice against either the country or its people.
Ibid.
Can someone say “straw man”? Look, there are clearly people who have a “generalized prejudice” against American people or against America as a country. But that’s not anti-American in the political sense. Those people are bigots and are no different from the numerous English people who feel antipathy towards the French or the numerous French people who feel antipathy towards the non-French.
However, given that Principle 8 is entitled ‘Against Racism’, I would have thought that a specific principle attacking anti-American bigotry would be unnecessary. So obviously that’s not what Opposing anti-Americanism means in the context of The Euston Manifesto.
Instead, what we have here is yet another transparent and irritating attempt to conflate legitimate political anti-Americanism with bigotry. It’s a tactic beloved of dishonest rightwing newspaper columnists and mirrors the tactic of equating opposition to Israeli government policy with anti-semitism. I find it impossible to trust people who resort to this tactic. It’s a deep-seated dishonesty and it casts a dark shadow over their motivations.
I am – politically speaking – anti-American. I disagree profoundly not merely with the political aims and policies of the current United States government, but also with the aggressive global marketing of US culture and economic philosophy. And yet I have American friends and family (like many Irish families we have a branch in the States). I lived there for a year. New York is my favourite city. I adore American film, literature and music. There is no contradiction.
Principle 6 of The Euston Manifesto is not about being “against anti-Americanism”; it’s about being in favour of pro-Americanism. It is the active support of US foreign policy and the embrace of corporate capitalism. It stands hand-in-hand with Principle 5. A pledge of allegiance to the Land of The Free(dom-as-economic development). Why else the need to dishonestly paint those who consider themselves politically anti-American as bigots?
And there’s more
But not right now. You’ll have to wait for ‘critique #2’. I want to address the subject of “democracy” and that deserves an essay to itself… Principle 1 of The Euston Manifesto (the ‘We Heart Democracy’ bit) provides an interesting context in which to do that. Also I believe that there may even be a ‘critique #3’ as I’d like to highlight a particularly glaring self-contradiction in the manifesto (the “No apology for Tyranny” yet active “political pro-Americanism” paradox), elaborate a little on the implications of the pro-globalisation stance and analyse the language used when discussing terrorism, internationalism, heritage and freedom. So until then.
“Development can bring growth in life-expectancy and in the enjoyment of life, easing burdensome labour and shortening the working day. It can bring freedom to youth, possibilities of exploration to those of middle years, and security to old age. It enlarges horizons and the opportunities for travel, and helps make strangers into friends.”
Can, might, maybe, possibly. Not does or will.
Development can also bring a lessening of life expectancy and the enjoyment of life, increase burdensome labour and lenghten the working day.
Why do the unindustrialised !Kung of the Kalahari work less than two days a week and we work 5 days, plus overtime and travelling? Why do the people of Bougainville kick the developers out? Why do the people of West Papua come to Europe, look at development, return home and send us a pamphlet called ‘Just Leave Us Alone!’?
I was with you on the useless vagueness of much of this stuff, Jim. But I parted company with the rest of humanity’s puny capacity for laughter when I read “helps make strangers into friends”.
Hell, I’m in favour of people being friends, right? I think I’ll sign up.
See how the urbanisation and industrialisation of development have made people all join hands. See how the most developed nations have much less crime and hatred. Shanty towns around the world consist solely of friends singing the praises of development.
We just want to grab the free markets – ie the right of those with the most money to get what they want – and take them to the whole world. We’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, we’d like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company.
May 23rd, 2006 | 7:17pm
by Merrick
The Euston Manifesto is comprised of a preamble, 15 statements of principle, a bunch of elaborations and a short conclusion.
No it isn’t. It’s composed of a preamble etc., or it comprises a preamble, etc. I had this distinction beaten into me at school, so must always deprive others of the fun of ignoring it.
May 23rd, 2006 | 7:37pm
by Philip Challinor
I know you’ll not believe me Philip, but I was aware of that. My first draft had “comprises a preamble…” but I felt that “is composed of…” scans better and changed it. Except I obviously only got halfway through the change before being distracted by something and forgetting to finish it.
Bugger. But I’ll not edit it now that it’s been commented on.
Merrick, it’s absurd isn’t it? To be fair, most political manifestos stray into the hyperbolic from time to time, but asserting that economic development “helps make strangers into friends” is bizarre.
May 23rd, 2006 | 8:03pm
by Jim
Unsurprisingly, in broad agreement with you here, but I think that the ‘development as freedom’ is a reference to Amartya Sen, and a capabilities approach to assessment of claims about freedom, rather than globalisation.
May 23rd, 2006 | 10:22pm
by Rob
Oh, go on and change it, you great softy.
May 24th, 2006 | 9:15am
by Philip Challinor
[…] The Euston Manifesto critique #1 An anti-American replies […]
May 24th, 2006 | 12:10pm
by The Sharpener » Blog Archive »
Well a shared traumatic experience can “help make strangers into friends”, so why aren’t they calling for all buses to have bombs that’ll go off when the speed drops under 50mph planted on them by so we can all fall in love like Keanu & Sandra did at the end of that film?
This manifesto is indeed an amazing thing – the more you dissect the nonsense contained within it, the more nonsense there seems to be left to dissect.
May 24th, 2006 | 12:16pm
by N.I.B.
“The website bloggers4labour.org would like to set a cookie. Will you allow it?”
That’s a result of using Google Analytics to monitor stats – don’t like the implication that something underhand is going on.
May 24th, 2006 | 2:31pm
by B4L
Good grief B4L, there was no implication of “something underhand”. And I’ll say it straight out – just in case you weren’t the only person to misinterpret that line…
There is no implication that anything underhand is going on between The Euston Manifesto and Bloggers4Labour.org
That line was a small dash of wry humour, no more. My regular reader would see the funny side… bloggers4labour AND an endorsement from Oliver Kamm.
I’m rather confused as to what manner of underhandedness you thought was being implied though. The request to set a browser cookie implies what exactly?
Incidentally, it has absolutely sod all to do with google analytics. I’ve already written about my dislike for Google Analytics elsewhere, but I’d be rather concerned if Google’s stats software was somehow passing cookies between domains, or trying to set cookies from one domain on another. That would be a very serious security issue indeed.
No, the culprit is the blogroll code that you’ve got implanted in the sidebar of the Euston Manifesto site. The blogroll is generated by a script on the bloggers4labour.org website. The exact declaration responsible is:
<script type=”text/javascript” xsrc=”http://www.bloggers4labour.org/feed/euston.jsp?format=1&sort=0″>
See, the user’s browser is being forced to access the bloggers4labour.org website in order to retrieve that script. As a result, any session / client variables that would get set when a visitor arrives at bloggers4labour.org are also getting set when a user arrives at eustonmanifesto.org
Incidentally, about the only “underhand” thing I can imagine possibly being implied by my joke would be the accusation that web-browers accessing the Euston Manifesto website are generating additional “hidden” web traffic to bloggers4labour.org (web-stats software will register each request for that script as a hit on bloggers4labour.org).
And that’s precisely what is occurring. Though I accept you had no idea of that, and did not intend it (laying the blame at Google Analytics is evidence that you – like most – have a limited grasp on the technology that drives the web).
May 24th, 2006 | 5:47pm
by Jim
Jim, I think you’ve summed up my problems with it better than I’ve managed on my two attempts. Although I must’ve glossed over the environment paragraph, not something I’m an expert in.
I’ve got no idea what the technical problems with Google analytics are, so I’ll leave that, but I think I get B4L’s (Andrew, right?) missreading; I got it, I still have problems going to read that site, even though it is quite good.
You know how the web works. I know this, as do your other regular readers. But how many times have you met or encountered someone convinced that cookies are evil? Or that cross domain stuff is a conspiracy? If you didn’t get the joke, then it’s a web implementation complaint, not a “this is associated with the Labour party” complaint.
Ah well. It is getting the the state that I, at times, have to re-iterate “some of my best friends are American”. Then I have to say “and some of them voted for Bush. And they’re not stupid”. That’s the scary bit.
May 24th, 2006 | 9:34pm
by MatGB
OK, wry humour, but you did say, “… the first time I visited its website … set a cookie … “Oliver Kamm” … So it got off to a bad start … compounds the badness”. I accept it wasn’t your intention, but the Euston Group attracts conspiracy theories, and consequently I have to nip any allegations of sinister cyber activities in the bud. Our lizard masters insist on it.
The list of allied bloggers is generated by B4L code, which I don’t think is sinister (separation of responsibilities, etc.), as is the fact that the B4L code counts the hit. If you look at the cookies generated (Firefox can do this) you’ll notice 2, or probably 3 non-session cookies, 2 of which are indeed Google’s (“__utma” and “__utmz”), you cheeky monkey. How else could stat-counting software track people?
The other thing is that even B4L isn’t formally tied to Labour, so anyone thinking the EM must be would be way off track.
May 25th, 2006 | 8:57am
by Andrew @ B4L
That was brilliant, Jim.
So they’re ‘democrats’ and ‘progressive’. They define ‘progress’ as ‘sustainable development’ (i.e. business as usual, but with added investment opportunities). But do they have a go at defining ‘democracy’ anywhere? I ask because a) they make the bizarre assertion that America is a ‘strong democracy’, and b) I can’t be arsed to read the bloody thing myself.
May 25th, 2006 | 9:00am
by Rochenko
My favourite parts have to be “No apology for tyranny”, is that a stab a Chomsky? Britain’s foreign policy record is also less than exemplary, Apartheid in South Africa for instance.
Whenever anyone evokes the ‘globalisation = freedom’ equation I say one word, “China”.
Number 10 talks about humanitarian intervention as a cover for pre-emptive war, how many people have been liberated of their lives in Serbia, Afghanistan and Iraq?
Freedom of ideas, you can say what you want but if we don’t like it then we will bury you.
Someone should translate it into English.
May 25th, 2006 | 10:22am
by Tetsuo
Rochenko, the manifesto has a principle lauding the grooviness of democracy. I’m halfway through an piece dedicated to that principle.
Actually, that’s not quite true. I’m halfway through a piece on the subject of democracy. I’m just using the manifesto to illustrate some points. I’d like to say it’ll be up today, but I’ve got an awful lot to say about democracy… perhaps as much as a thesis-worth in fact… so it’s a chore to put together a blog-sized essay that covers the points I want to.
Andrew, do let me assure you that there was no intent to contribute to, or start any, conspiracy theories regarding The Euston Manifesto. As I said, it was something of an in-joke; though I accept (having re-read it a few times) that those not party to the joke would perhaps see a sinister implication. So on the one hand; sorry about that. But on the other; serves them right for not being regular readers.
And in truth it had little to do with bloggers4labour.org (which has never been mentioned on my blog). It’s just that regular readers are aware of my attitude towards the labour party, and are also familiar with my bemused contempt for Kamm. So to arrive at a website for the first time and be greeted by the words “bloggers4labour” and Oliver Kamm… in however innocuous a context… sets a certain tone.
Well. I found it vaguely humourous.
And just to clear up the google analytics confusion. Indeed GA does set cookies. It does not, however, set cookies for bloggers4labour.org (which was your original statement).
I just want to point out that cookies can only be set if a browser makes a request to that domain. To reiterate, there is nothing (necessarily) sinister about that. The vast amount of cross-domain stuff (including the euston manifesto / bloggers4labour thing) is perfectly legit… in the past, sites of mine have grabbed images, mp3s, stylesheets, scripts, etc. from other domains. It’s a normal process.
Tetsuo, I believe when you invoke China, however, most proponents of globalisation would claim that free markets and integration into the globalised economic family is resulting in Chinese liberalisation and incremental moves towards freedom.
My problem is that I question the very concept of “freedom” being used. The freedom to choose between twelve brands of soap powder doesn’t nourish the soul in the sense that the word “freedom” is surely supposed to.
May 25th, 2006 | 1:11pm
by Jim
Excellent, I look forward to reading your efforts. The concept of grooviness has hitherto been criminally ignored in political philosophy – except of course by Hegel.
May 25th, 2006 | 1:49pm
by Rochenko
Could you explain how you think “Global development must be pursued in a manner consistent with environmentally sustainable growth” is a pipedream? Despite being a bit of a pessimist environment/development-wise myself, I don’t see it as impossible, just you need to rather radically re-define what is meant by those prickily terms “development”, “growth” and “environmentally sustainable”. Would something like Intermediate Technology not fit the bill here?
May 25th, 2006 | 3:11pm
by Simstim
Simstim, trouble is; you can prove most things are possible if you “radically re-define [the] terms”. So unless given evidence to the contrary, I have to assume that anyone using the terms “development” and “growth” is referring to the terms as manifested in the world during my lifetime.
I know what I understand by those terms. And that’s all I have to go on. If the author of a political manifesto (or philosophy text or engineering schematic) plans on using a well-understood term in a new or specialised way, then they need to flag that up-front. Similarly, if a political manifesto uses an ambiguous word or phrase without tying down the meaning, then the author must accept that the reader will apply their own understanding of that word or phrase.
This is not so important in a blog entry or newspaper column where the writer may well wish to play on the ambiguity (for fair means or foul). But it’s of vital importance in a political manifesto to which the author is seeking signatories.
May 25th, 2006 | 5:14pm
by Jim
Incidentally, i think it’s a very bad idea indeed to try and redefine terms in the specific way you’re suggesting. I am opposed to further economic growth / development in most of the world.
I could come up with a radical redefinition of the word “growth” in order to claim I’m in favour of it. But that’s surely misleading, as I’m aware that most people will not share my meaning when I say “I’m in favour of sustainable growth”. I prefer to be as unambiguous as possible (and it’s rarely possible to be 100% unambiguous) on these kinds of issues.
Radical changes to resource distribution and a massive reduction in overall consumption are required in my view. This will result in a significant reduction in economic activity. I see no reason to twist words to make that sound like “growth”.
I admit though, it confuses me a little that more people don’t get the negative connotations of growth. I guess most just see a cartoon graph with an ever-increasing line representing wealth. Growth, though, can also mean a malignant tumour visiting blood, pain and a slow death on the host organism.
May 25th, 2006 | 5:28pm
by Jim
Hmm.. I see what you mean, however I’d suggest that the narrow equation of “growth” with “GDP” is potentially on its way out. It’s not going quietly, that’s for sure, but alternative notions of what counts as growth and development are definitely on the cards. Just look at Cameron’s recent cack-handed attempt.
May 25th, 2006 | 11:44pm
by Simstim
12 brands of soap powder made by two companies. I was going to make an image once that said ‘freedom isn’t a choice between coke and pepsi’.
It is enshrined in law that companies have to make a profit or the CEO can be sued, which is why there is an obsession with perpetual ‘growth’.
China just scares me, large corporations doing what is asked of them, it’s like there is an elephant in the room and nobody is mentioning it because there is a share in a 1.3 billion new market.
It isn’t that globalisation is necessarily bad, it is the way it is implemented and the double standards. The WTO, IMF and WB don’t need to be reformed they need to be removed and start again, I’ve never voted for who sits on any of them.
May 26th, 2006 | 10:17am
by Tetsuo
[…] I hesitate to add to the thousands of words already written about the Euston Manifesto. We had two good posts here yesterday, but the best so far is probably this one. Anyway, I hesitate essentially because I only read it today, and the damn thing is deathly dull, a collection of anodyne pronouncements, platitudes, and mostly a whole bunch of self-justifying shite that just about anything with a pulse could sign up to. Wet western wank, as the catchphrase goes. […]
May 26th, 2006 | 4:09pm
by The Sharpener » Blog Archive » The real madness of the Euston Manifesto
“It is enshrined in law that companies have to make a profit or the CEO can be sued…”
That’s an interesting idea but it is certainly not part of the “economic philosophy” which we in the State are supposed to be pushing on the rest of the world. CEOs get sued for putting shareholder interests in danger by breaking the law, ‘cooking’ the books etc etc.
Right or wrong as it may be, they usually get little more than a ‘golden parachute’ for unwise business decisions.
May 28th, 2006 | 2:46pm
by David Sucher
Suppose the limits to growth are in fact far, far into the future?
Suppose they build big nuclear power stations to power the 21st century, and they work and they don’t run out of uranium, and they bury the waste and we all drive battery powered cars, so global warming is solved with a big technofix. How much extra time does that give us?
Suppose we continue to see an increase in abundance of most things. Suppose that each generation is better fed, better educated, lives longer, stands taller(literally), enjoys better health, drives more cars etc etc.
Is there any good reason to suppose that we are going to reach limits to growth any time soon?
Should we be worrying about other things instead?
May 28th, 2006 | 11:48pm
by johnny bonk
So just how many of us don’t accept the Euston Manifesto? Register your rejection here.
May 29th, 2006 | 1:52pm
by Ian Appleby
Regarding the suggestion in part 5 that the Club of Rome stuff has been discredited.
“The Limits to Growth report includes a table listing all the resources that were supposedly going to run out. The report’s authors projected that, at the exponential growth rates they expected to occur, known world supplies of zinc, gold, tin, copper, oil, and natural gas would be completely exhausted in 1992”
1992 having passed their report is clearly discredited. A common problem for almost all “environmentalist” predictions which are careless enough to give a date for their scare stories. Other such are listed on my blog entry for April 1st.
May 29th, 2006 | 5:28pm
by Neil Craig
“The Limits to Growth report includes a table listing all the resources that were supposedly going to run out. The report’s authors projected that, at the exponential growth rates they expected to occur, known world supplies of zinc, gold, tin, copper, oil, and natural gas would be completely exhausted in 1992”
1992 having passed their report is clearly discredited. A common problem for almost all “environmentalist” predictions which are careless enough to give a date for their scare stories. Other such are listed on my blog entry for April 1st.
Neil, I can only hope that your readership is either very small – or else is aware that they’re being misinformed. Is that first paragraph your own claim, or is it a claim by someone else that you’re passing off as fact without having confirmed it?
Incidentally, I did say I wouldn’t get into specifics regarding The Limits to Growth unless a reference was provided. But misrepresentation needs to be addressed.
Why is it that critics of The Limits to Growth always refer to “a table”, rather than, say “Table 2”? If someone has come across the “fact” that The Limits to Growth states all natural gas will be exhausted by 1992 (for example), then you’d think they’d note the reference so that others could confirm it.
Well I’ve got Page 58 open in front of me (Chapter 2, Table 4; Pan Books 1983 reprint). I’m forced to assume (without a reference) that this is the table being referred to. It provides estimates of the depletion of non-renewable resources. It comes with a remarkable number of caveats that never seem to be referred to by critics. For each resource, it provides three estimates:
* a static use estimate (at 1970 usage rate),
* an exponential estimate of known (1970) reserves, and
* an exponential estimate of increased reserves (to take into account future discoveries).
Furthermore, the exponential estimate is subdivided into three potential growth rates (with the middle projection being used). And it’s made clear (as though the format of the table wasn’t enough) in the eight or so pages of explanatory notes and graphs, that no single number is a “prediction”. Rather, the table is designed to illustrate the different mathematical models that can be used in resource analysis.
Nonetheless, even given that. Even if we deliberately ignore the explanatory notes and claim that this table comprises predictions; the “1992” projection is the most pessimistic. It’s the one that assumes zero new discoveries.
To pick any number at all from this table and claim it is “a prediction” rather than an illustration of a model is to misunderstand the purpose of the table.
But to then extract the projection that assumes zero new discoveries (when we know that – historically – natural gas discovery did not end in 1970) is profoundly dishonest. So even when we deliberately misunderstand the book in order to present it in a bad light. Even then, Neil, the paragraph you cite is simply wrong. Either it’s a lie, or it’s seriously crap research.
I do not, let me repeat, do not stand by any single date cited in The Limits to Growth. Depletion analysis has progressed somewhat since 1970. Models are refined, additional data gets fed in, computers get more powerful. However, all of this is stressed – at some length – in the book itself.
Ultimately the book needs to be judged on the methodology and philosophy it espouses, as well as on the genuine predictions which are made in the conclusions.
“1. If the present growth trends in world population, industrialization, pollution, food production, and resource depletion continue unchanged, the limits to growth on this planet will be reached sometime within the next one hundred years” (page 23)
What it shouldn’t be judged on is unreferenced paragraphs from an unknown commentator that deliberately distort the contents of the book and – essentially – tell lies about it.
May 29th, 2006 | 9:54pm
by Jim
Ian, I’m with your pledge in spirit, but I do feel that my writing is evidence enough that I “don’t accept The Euston Manifesto”. I’m not sure a pledge to never sign the thing is required at this point.
Suppose the limits to growth are in fact far, far into the future?
Fair question johnny. Unfortunately that doesn’t appear to be the case. In my view, the evidence points towards fossil fuel depletion becoming a serious problem within the next 10 years. In fact, I’d argue that it’s already a serious problem and that the current political violence (and threat of more to come) in the Middle East and Central Asia is an illustration of this. The implications for global economic growth, however, are only beginning to be felt.
I don’t believe your vision of a nuclear powered 21st century where we all drive battery-powered cars is possible, even were it desirable.
I believe that we are approaching a period in our history where we can either embrace a managed powerdown of our frenetic over-consumption, or we will be faced with catastrophe.
May 29th, 2006 | 10:08pm
by Jim
Counterpunch has weighed in on it, and isn’t very complimentary.
May 30th, 2006 | 12:41pm
by Tetsuo
Jim, I take the point that your writing shows your opposition to the manifesto; the idea behind my pledge was simply to provide one place where the numbers opposed could be gauged, as an analogue to the Eustonites’ tally of those who have signed. I’m aware that PledgeBank is a bit of a blunt instrument for this purpose, but I think it could work as a quick and dirty proxy – the counting is more important than the pledging, if you see what I mean.
June 1st, 2006 | 1:38pm
by Ian Appleby
Jim, as the second person to sign Ian’s pledge, I endorse it completely as another pointless waste of time that causes some amusement.
Essentially, if we can get it to a couple hundred, it’ll annoy Norm no end. That’s gotta be worth it, right?
June 2nd, 2006 | 7:59pm
by MatGB
Of course No-to-Euston isn’t needed. But it’s a bit of good, clean, Norm-baiting fun, and what have you got to lose?
June 5th, 2006 | 10:40am
by Larry Teabag
“Known world supplies of zinc, gold, tin, copper, oil, and natural gas would be completely exhausted in 20 years ”
comes from the enormously influential Club of Rome report of 1973 – the date of catastrophe has been passed without any bother (or apology).
For 8 other post-nonoperative Luddite threats see
http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2006/04/enviromentalists-collapse-is-worse.html
Growth is perfectly possible for at least several centuries & we should not try to condemn most of humanity to poverty without cause.
July 5th, 2006 | 10:22am
by Neil Craig
“Known world supplies of zinc, gold, tin, copper, oil, and natural gas would be completely exhausted in 20 years”
comes from the enormously influential Club of Rome report of 1973
Neil, did you even read my response? What’s the point of posting a comment, then ignoring a detailed reponse and reiterating the same line?
Let’s get a few things straight…
comes from the enormously influential Club of Rome report of 1973
Trivially, the report was released in 1971, and first published in paperback in 1972. You should at least make a small effort to get the basic facts right. It shows you’re not just some tosser wasting everyone’s time.
Less trivially, as I explained at some length in the comment above (#26), the “prediction” you ascribe to the Limits to Growth / Club of Rome report is based on a deliberately flawed misreading of the book.
The report makes no such firm prediction; the table you refer to provides a series of hypotheticals. Dishonest critics have taken the opportunity to grab the most pessimistic of those hypotheticals and paint it as a (clearly inaccurate) “prediction”.
I’ve precisely zero interest in that kind of deliberate dishonesty within a debate. Either engage with an argument on its merits or stay out of it. Clouding the issue with demonstrably dishonest claims does nobody any good.
July 10th, 2006 | 10:21am
by Jim