Travelling Dublin-London
I recently popped over to the UK for a few days. I spent a day in London, then a couple of days in West Sussex and then returned to Dublin. It’s possible that I may make that trip — to see gigs or visit friends — several times a year, so I wanted to find a cheap way of doing it that didn’t involve the airline industry.
We’ve all got an obligation to avail of less energy-extravagant, and less polluting, forms of transport where possible. Having taken far more than my fair share of flights, that’s an obligation I’ve begun to feel quite keenly. Which is not to say that I’ll never fly again… I still plan on visiting the United States at least once more, and who knows where else life will take me… but where there’s a practical alternative – even if it’s more expensive – then I’ll avoid planes.
And having visited the Ryanair website and seen the advertisements for the 99 cent Dublin-London flights, it’s inevitable that the alternatives will indeed be more expensive.
Or so you’d think. But in reality those 99 cent flights are only available to a select few individuals… people, who by virtue of their peculiar diplomatic status, don’t have to pay the fuel surcharge and airport taxes. Because, you see, those 99 cent flights (or €1.98 return) cannot actually be purchased without also spending over 50 euro on surcharges and taxes. It’s the same for every other low cost airline. The same for Aerlingus.
In fact, it’s not possible to get a return flight from Dublin to London for less than the €51.40 charged by the taxmen at both airports. This is still a scandalously low price, don’t get me wrong, but do bear it in mind when you see a poster advertising flights for 99 cent.
Especially as you can get a coach for €35. And no hidden extras. In fact, it’s possible you may be able to do it even cheaper than that, but I’m a sucker for publicly owned public transport, so even if they don’t offer the best deal I’m going to go with Bus Éireann. I doubt – after all – that you’ll do much better than 35 euro.
12 Hours
Anyways, that’s the problem. It’s a 12 hour journey. And I’m 6’1″… which is too tall to spend 7 hours sitting in the narrow seat directly in front of the hyperactive six year old who throws up near Birmingham.
You see, it’s bearable to have a 7 hour coach trip followed by a 4 hour ferry crossing. The return journey is — relatively speaking — a breeze. Because although the ferry is too bright, too loud, and you can never get properly comfortable; it’s nonetheless a glorious relief after 7 hours cooped up in a coach between London and Holyhead.
But having disembarked from the vaguely hostile environment of the ferry, 7 hours in a coach is a terrifying prospect. Especially when idiotic parents feed their already-wired child with cola and chocolate.
Which is why, next time I make the journey, I’ve decided to get the train from Holyhead to London. It adds an extra €15 to the total cost of the trip (still cheaper than the airport taxes though), and it doesn’t save a huge amount of time (thanks to the faff of changing at Crewe), but trains are far more comfortable than coaches.
So yeah, 50 euro round trip from Dublin to London… coach-ferry-train / coach-ferry-coach. Cheaper than flying, better for the planet, and you get to do some reading. Yay!
NOTE: The environmental benefits of taking the coach are established, and discussed, in this entry.
Some links (update February 2012)
This post is the second most popular one on my blog. So I’ve added a couple of recent links for people looking for information on travelling from Dublin to London without using a plane. I don’t want to give the impression that these links constitute a commercial endorsement of these companies, but they do provide a very useful service for those of us seeking to avoid air travel for environmental (or other) reasons.
- Stena Line Sail and Rail: Offering an integrated ferry and train ticket between most mainline destinations in Ireland and the UK. Approximately €50 for a ticket on the day of travel between Dublin and London (with a slight discount for advance booking).
- Bus Éireann Eurolines: Offering a combined ferry and coach service between destinations in Ireland and the UK.
- Bus Éireann: Bus Éireann website. For coach travel within Ireland.
- Irish Rail: Irishrail.ie. For train travel within Ireland.
- Dublin Bus: For bus routes and timetables in Dublin.
- Luas.ie: For the Dublin Luas (light rail) system.
Hope this helps!
Here’s another way to look at it.
Let’s say the flight takes you 4 hours door to door vs. 12 hours by land and sea.
Even if we assume that the environmental impact of flying is much worse than the alternative (which I would dispute), you will have 8 “extra” hours available to make up for it. So you can dedicate this time directly towards a contributon towards the planet – like donating wages to an NGO or volunteer work. I am sure that it will more than make up for it.
Plus it will be much more comfortable.
July 11th, 2006 | 8:21pm
by Philippe
Phillipe, on what basis do you dispute the damage of flying. can you give us some evidence please?
I have no idea why you think that donating you wages to an NGO would in any concievable way balance out the damage you are causing with your flight. You can’t pay someone else to have a conscience on your behalf.
“you can dedicate this time directly towards a contributon towards the planet” – where do you start with this line of arguement? Buy travelling overland rather than flying you /are/ deliberatly spending more time over something because it is the right thing to do.
You talk about the earth’s ecosystems as if it were some nice add on, and not the ability to sustain life.
This is no longer about ‘making your contribution’ its a matter of injustice. We are systematically descimating the world’s resources and life support systems at the expense of the poor in the majority world and future generations. Our desire to consume is not more important than their right to life.
We have to stop flying. We have to stop burning coal. We have to stop… It would be much more comfortable if we could ignore this imperative, but saying “la la la I’m not listening” won’t make climate change go away and neither will be donating a few quid to Greenpeace.
July 12th, 2006 | 12:11pm
by claire
Claire, in answer to your questions:
About flying vs driving vs train, I used http://www.lpb.org/programs/forest/calculator.html to make a few calculation:
Dublin – London 300miles
Driving emissions: 160kg CO2
Flying: 130kg
Train: 90kg
From Jim’s post, I am assuming as starting point that he will travel to London – let’s just take that as a given for now (since he does). Whether we should stop travelling, or flying altogether is for another discussion.
I just wanted to focus on the scenarios in terms of carbon emissions. By flying instead of taking the train, he emits 70kg more CO2. It would cost him less than 5pounds to make that a carbon neutral trip through carbonneutral.com. In fact, it would cost him a few hundred pounds to be completely carbon neutral for a year.
The end result of what your individual contribution to Carbon emmissions is what count – if you can lead a carbon neutral lifestyle through paying for it, isn’t that better than just reducing your emissions?
I realize fully that environmental damage is much broader than CO2 emissions, but I just wanted to focus on the practical choices that Jim has in making that Dublin – London trip. Within that framework I think it’s reasonable. What you would you have him do GIVEN he will make the trip?
July 12th, 2006 | 6:54pm
by Philippe
This is very helpful! I’m considering myself going to London from Dublin and I like you prefer using the transportation on land. Because of the damage flying does and a little because of my fear of flying.
I tried to find trains directly from dublin but I guess I’m just kidding myself, so the coach is the best option? Or only..
October 2nd, 2006 | 3:33pm
by karna
Karna, I wrote a little more about the subject here. The coach is certainly the most convenient and the cheapest way (you get on at Busaras in Dublin, and you’re shepherded all the way to London Victoria). That said, you can get the train from Holyhead Port to London (making a change or two) which is a far more comfortable way to travel to London, but a bit more expensive.
Because of the way Bus Eireann bulk-buy their ferry tickets, it’s actually cheaper to buy a coach ticket from Dublin to London and get off at Holyhead than it is to buy a walk-on passenger ticket for the ferry. Strange but there you go.
October 2nd, 2006 | 4:11pm
by Jim
Thank you for the information! In plain English and just what you need to read when faced with the choice: flying vs driving.
I will take the bus, perhaps the whole way as I’m in a position where I must choose the cheaper option before the more comfortable one.
Cheers!
October 6th, 2006 | 2:32pm
by karna
Hi, just so you know, there is another way of getting a cheap fare that avoids paying for the bus ticket as well as the train one. Instead of buying a foot passenger fare on the ferry, plus a train ticket, you can (for max €39 to anywhere in the UK, a bit cheaper if it’s somewhere like Birmingham that’s closer to Holyhead) get an all-in ‘train and ferry’ (aka “sail & rail”) ticket. The advantage is that if the cheap Bus Éireann fares are sold out (as they often are, especially given the popularity of the Dublin-London link as a start to a longer journey to Poland or elsewhere in Eastern Europe), and the UK trains and the (globe-killing) flights are also heanding for the sky, the train/ferry fare stays fixed in place. It’s probably a bulkbuy too, cause it makes no sense (foot passenger fare is about €20, official rail fare from Holyhead to London is anything up to a theoretical €150 (€100) for a walk-up single…)
Thanks for an interesting account. I am currently trying to compile various bits of advice on Dublin-London surface travel into a page at http://www.lexferenda.com/?page_id=162. I’ve linked to your information.
December 20th, 2006 | 6:37pm
by DaithÃ
Hey,
I want to know is there visa requirement for travelling from Dublin to London?
May 19th, 2007 | 12:56pm
by Muhammad Raees
No Muhammad, there’s not. Theoretically, all travel is unrestricted once you are within the EU. However, in practice it’s not quite like that. You will need some form of official photo-ID to get smoothly through immigration-control at Holyhead. Almost everyone still uses their passport, so in reality very little has changed since the travel restrictions were “relaxed”.
I saw a Chinese woman have problems when she arrived in Dublin from London. She claimed she was legally a UK resident and was just visiting Dublin for a couple of days. But she didn’t have proof of her UK residency, and was consequently detained.
So if you’re travelling from Country X to Dublin and then from Dublin to London; and if you require a visa to get from Country X to Dublin, then you will need — in theory — to present that visa when you arrive in Holyhead.
May 19th, 2007 | 3:05pm
by Jim
Hi Jim,
I’m delighted to take your suggestion to avoid air travel– only I don’t know a proper route.
I need to get from Dublin to Devon. Can you make a recommendation?
Thanks for any suggestions. I’m from the US, and less than familiar.
Patrick
February 29th, 2008 | 5:30am
by Patrick
Hi Patrick,
Sorry for the delay in replying. Your comment slipped through the net somehow.
I’ve done a bit of research, and I’m afraid it looks like the journey will be a bit of a pain in the arse if you decide to avoid flights. Obviously I don’t know where you’re going in Devon, but I’ve taken Exeter as the final destination (it’s a large town in roughly the centre of the county).
It’s simple enough to get from Bristol to Exeter by train (Bristol being the major city in that part of the country and something of a transport mini-hub). There are trains every half hour or so and the journey time is less than 90 minutes.
But getting from Dublin to Bristol is a bit of a problem. It’s a 12 hour coach trip (including the ferry crossing) which seems pretty damn painful to me. The train from Holyhead (the port in Wales to which the Dublin ferry sails) to Bristol takes 5 hours, inclusive of at least one change.
However, I do have a semi-heretical idea. There’s an airline called Air Southwest which is about to start a thrice-weekly service between Dublin and Plymouth — also in Devon, and not far from Exeter — but not until the end of April (would that be too late for you?). Because they don’t use jets (turboprop engines) they aren’t nearly as environmentally damaging as other airlines, though still worse than the train.
Check out the following links for further details:
http://www.thetrainline.com/
(for UK train timetables and ticket booking)
http://www.nationalexpress.com/
(for UK coaches)
http://www.buseireann.ie/
(for Irish coaches… click on “Eurolines” for the international section)
http://www.airsouthwest.com/
(for Air Southwest)
I hope this helps.
(Note: I’m loathe to point this out, but several other airlines fly direct between Dublin and Bristol, though most use jets. If you do decide to fly, then go Dublin – Bristol and get the train down, rather than Dublin – London and then the train. It’ll be quicker, and involve less flying time).
March 7th, 2008 | 1:16am
by Jim Bliss
Thanks a lot for all the information above. I am attending seminar in Dublin and on the way back I am intending to travel to London, and my London destination is Sundial House, I really want to have an experience taking the train (bit longer time but environmentally friendly I guess). Where route should I take?. Thanks
Puni
August 18th, 2008 | 10:24am
by puni
Hi Puni,
Well, the easiest thing to do would be to book a ferry from Dublin to Holyhead (either Stena Line Ferries or Irish Ferries) ensuring that your arrival time is morning or early afternoon (i.e. leaving enough time so you don’t get to London too late). Then simply buy a train ticket to London upon your arrival. The train station is in Holyhead Port itself and trains are frequent. There’s no direct route (I think you need to change at Crewe or Chester) but it’s not at all complicated and connecting trains are also quite frequent.
You can use thetrainline.com if you decide to book the train in advance, but I don’t believe it should be necessary. You’ll probably get a slightly cheaper ticket by booking in advance, but may lose some flexibility (should your ferry be a little late, for instance).
Note also that there are two ports in Dublin. There’s ‘Dublin Port’ itself and also ‘Dun Laoghaire’ (pronounced “Done Leary”). There are several sailings to Holyhead each day from both ports.
I hope this helps.
August 18th, 2008 | 12:36pm
by Jim Bliss
Oh, and Puni, it’s worth bearing in mind that this route is not merely a “bit longer time”. We are talking about a half-day travelling as opposed to a 55 minute flight (though when you add in check-in times and waiting times, it’s obviously less clear-cut). I recommend it for lots of reasons, but do bear in mind the additional time.
August 18th, 2008 | 3:01pm
by Jim Bliss
The recent comments flagged up this thread, and I see Philippe’s response went unanswered.
Firstly, it’s not clear if the emissions figures include ‘radiative forcing’, the fact that emissions at altitude have a greater impact than ones on the ground. It’s generally accepted that the effect is around double.
Many carbon calculators – especially those trying to sell you carbon offsets – ignore radiative forcing.
But this is a side issue. Phillipe says ‘it would cost him less than 5pounds to make that a carbon neutral trip through carbonneutral.com’.
This has total faith in the effectiveness of carbon offsets. That faith that is entirely misplaced; carbon offsets are a fraud.
Many offset schemes simply don’t work (people dish out the low-carbon technology then don’t go back and check if it’s broken and the punter’s returned to using high-carbon stuff). But let’s play.
There is a simple and, when you think about it, very obvious reason why all offsetting is nonsense.
Your emissions happen now. A tonne saved today is very different to a tonne saved over a few years. The emission is doing damage in the time between emission and absorption. If we keep offsetting a day’s emissions over a period of years, we can never catch up.
It’s like putting water in the bath by the bucketload but saying you’ll prevent it from overflowing by taking out by a teaspoonful for every bucket tipped in.
So, if it is to be a real offset, it’d have to save the emissions in the same timeframe as they’re released. To save Jim’s 130kg in the same amount of time he’s emitting from the plane, it’d take over 10,000 low-energy light bulbs to be dished out. That’s closer to 15,000 pounds than the offsetter’s suggested fiver.
When he or Philippe come to me with a reciept of that sort of size, then we can start on the injustice of the rich buying their indulgences simply because they have the money.
August 24th, 2008 | 11:11am
by merrick
I am a visitor from India to Ireland for three months visa. I am interested to visit UK for a week.Do I need a visa to UK apart from what I am having for visit to Ireland ?
August 26th, 2008 | 11:01pm
by mahendra yadav
Whether you decide to take a plane or bus really doesn’t matter.
You won’t save the planet by taking the bus. The planes will still continue to fly just as often, even if demand falls.
The planes are scheduled to fly months in advance whether you take them or not.
So there.
June 13th, 2009 | 5:07pm
by Barney Rock
So there?
So where?
How long did you spend thinking about this issue? Because if it was more than 15 seconds, then you’ve obviously been short-changed in the “rational thought” department.
The planes will still continue to fly just as often, even if demand falls.
No they won’t. That’s just complete nonsense. If you honestly think that Ryanair — for instance — is going to keep flying empty planes around the world for their own amusement and paid for out of their own pocket, then you’re clearly not thinking very straight.
The planes are scheduled to fly months in advance whether you take them or not.
And there’s two things wrong with this point. First up, airlines will happily cancel a scheduled flight as soon as the level of compensation they have to pay drops below the loss they’d make on the low seat occupancy. My cousin’s husband spent years working on the modelling software used by airlines to schedule flights. It’s down to a pretty fine art now.
Secondly, even if the point you made was valid; it’s still utterly irrelevant. Climate Change and resource depletion are issues that will span the next few decades. I’m thinking in considerably longer timespans than the “months in advance” they schedule flights for. I only wish other people would too.
June 13th, 2009 | 5:36pm
by Jim Bliss
What I will say, however, is that recent studies appear to be showing that air travel may not be quite as carbon intensive when compared with other forms of travel as was first thought. Sadly this has nothing to do with the benign nature of flying, and more to do with a tendency to underestimate the impact of buses and trains.
The primary difference, of course, is that buses and trains could theoretically, and with existing technology, be made almost carbon-neutral. This is not the case with air flight (though I’m looking forward to the sedate, solar-powered airships that tend to show up in my dreams these days — I blame Thomas Pynchon for that).
June 13th, 2009 | 5:42pm
by Jim Bliss
i am a bangladeshi national and i am a permanent resident in ireland, and i would like to travel to london by car, do i need to get a visa before my journey? thanks! please need your advice.
June 25th, 2009 | 3:28pm
by jimmy
Hey Jimmy. I’m afraid I really can’t answer that question. Your best bet is to contact the British Embassy in Ireland. They’ll tell you whether you need a visa and how to go about applying for one if necessary.
June 25th, 2009 | 3:36pm
by Jim Bliss
What a ‘gas’ he he it has been read this blogg! I came across it whilst looking for ferry details to uk. Fab info. Jimm Bliss who ever you are. you rock! ha
August 3rd, 2009 | 4:06pm
by Lee
Sorry Jim Bliss with only 1 m
August 3rd, 2009 | 4:07pm
by Lee
Hi Jim,
I found your blog when researching less damaging ways to travel from London to Dublin return, a journey I do about 15 times a year.
The bus just isn’t an option. The ferry+train deals (£29 each way) sparked my interest as they are roughly equivalent to a return plane fare.
However I was put off by the poor transit times between the (slow) ferry and the train at Holyhead.
It got me thinking though…
The London/Dublin Air route is in the top five busiest air routes in the world with over 40 flights a day each way. That roughly equates to 4000 passengers a day.
A train can carry roughly 400 passengers. The “direct” virgin Holyhead service stops at no fewer than 11 stations on its way to Holyhead taking nearly 4 hours. If it could muster its full payload at Euston it could travel non-stop to Holyhead in maybe 3 hours.
There’s still the problem of poor connectivity with the ferries for the final leg over the channel. High Speed Passenger only catamarans operate all over the world. Because they only take on foot passengers (around 400) and no cars or trucks their turn around times are very rapid. Here’s one here…
http://www.austal.com/index.cfm?objectID=07534B17-65BF-EBC1-228D3569BC0F7395
Would it be beyond all reason why Virgin wouldn’t commission their own passenger catamaran to link up with their trains seamlessly at Holyhead for a sub 2 hour voyage to Dublin?
Central Dublin to Central London in less that six hours is a distinct possibility.
I’m convinced there is a strong business case for Virgin to look into such a proposition, especially since air travel will be getting more expensive due to the introduction of carbon taxing. It just needs pointing out to them.
I think your the man to do it!
Paul
September 23rd, 2009 | 2:28am
by paul
hi i want to bring my 2 boys to see arsenal in london, but they dont wana fly, im in dublin, how long wud it take to get a ferry n den a train down to london do u know?
January 10th, 2010 | 6:11pm
by adrienne
Hey Adrienne. I’m afraid I don’t know exactly how long it would take. I’m guessing, door to door, you’re probably looking at seven hours minimum (probably a bit more). But having never taken the train from Holyhead to London, I just can’t say for sure.
One thing I would say, though, is that if you’re going to spend that long travelling, it’s probably worth going to see a decent team like Spurs.
January 11th, 2010 | 10:13pm
by Jim Bliss
hi jim, was trying to figure out whether to take the 93 or the 56 bus into town today, do you know which one is quicker? i understand this is leeds we’re talking about & you’re in dublin, but it seems from the comments in this post that youre the man to enquire this of.
also, could you tell me what is the correct amount to tip in Pavlodar?
January 13th, 2010 | 7:31pm
by hoop
I just wanted to say, I don’t think the plane is going to stay at the airport just because you’re not on it.
February 19th, 2010 | 5:06pm
by Anthony
If you’re trying to make the point that I think you are, Anthony, then please read my previous comment (#18) which deals with it. If you honestly feel that a reduction in demand for a service has no effect upon the frequency of that service then you don’t understand free market economics very well.
March 6th, 2010 | 1:48pm
by Jim Bliss
Hello,
I want to know where you are finding this cheap coach and ferry from. I want to do the same journey but from London to dublin.
The ferry works out at over £100 each and coach prices are stupid aswell!
Where are these low prices coming from? A return flight from stansted will only cost me £70 all in.
March 7th, 2010 | 11:48pm
by JADE
Hi Jade,
First up, bear in mind that this post was written almost 4 years ago. Prices have gone up a little since then. Even so, if you use the site I mentioned in the post (Bus Éireann, click on the EuroLines link when you get to that site) you can still get a cheaper crossing than flying.
I just checked and you can, for example, get a return from London to Dublin — leaving next Monday and returning a week later — for €65 (about £58). That’s a fair bit more expensive than it was 4 years ago, but if you book further in advance — leaving London on 15th May and returning a week later, for example — then the price comes down to €50 (about £45).
There may well be even cheaper options (that was just the first one I checked out), but the important point is to book a complete package — coach and ferry together — as you end up saving a lot on the ferry tickets. Hope this helps.
March 8th, 2010 | 12:04am
by Jim Bliss
I want to go from London to Dublin accompanying a small, but heavy case of artworks, size: 20″ x 18″ x 22″ (inches) but weighing 54-58 kilos (approx 4 stone). This will be on a two-wheel pullalong. Apparently, if I take a train to Hollyhead there is no weight limit and therefore no problem, but I will be seperated from my luggage when I get on board the boat and have to pick it up from a carousel at the port of Dublin. I would prefer to have with me at all times as the artworks are delicate and who knows how they are loaded on board ship. The other possibility is for me to go by coach, put the case in the luggage bay of a coach at London which would then be driven on to the ferry at Hollyhead and off at Dublin, unhandled by anyone except the driver while I was present for the whole journey.
Any suggestions?
Bernard
June 11th, 2010 | 2:41pm
by bernard canavan
i want to travel by car with 2 pups and a dog, 3 adults. i need to get to bedfordshire, london. can you advise me
October 31st, 2010 | 3:38pm
by rose mullally
Hi Rose,
I’m not sure exactly what advice I can offer here. Buy a ticket on the car ferry and inform the agent when you do so that you’ll have dogs in the car. I’m sure they’ll be able to tell you what paperwork (if any) you require. Jope this helps and have a pleasant journey.
November 2nd, 2010 | 11:01pm
by Jim Bliss
am going to london from Dublin, am just gonna ask, do i need a visa to travel to london for a visit by ferry?
November 30th, 2010 | 11:35pm
by ty
Hi ty. As I’ve said in a previous comment (#21), I’m not an expert on visa requirements.
If you have an EU passport, then you will not require a visa to travel between Ireland and the UK. Otherwise, your best bet is to contact the British Embassy in Ireland who will have the information you need.
December 7th, 2010 | 1:46pm
by Jim Bliss
I want to travel by bus/ferry/train from Wexford,town, eventually to Canterbury. Can you help by ease and cost information?
December 9th, 2010 | 7:36pm
by Bro. Don
Hi Brother Don. From Wexford your best bet is to get the ferry from Rosslare to Fishguard. I believe you can get a combined “sail and rail” deal from Rosslare to London (call the number on this website — 01 204 7777). Once in London you can get a train to Canterbury from St. Pancras mainline station.
Hope this helps.
December 9th, 2010 | 7:43pm
by Jim Bliss
hi, my name is johnny am travelling to UK, by Bus/Ferry from Dublin, do i need a Visa to Go? But i have residency in Ireland STAMP 4, will that be ok without VISA?
December 16th, 2010 | 3:46pm
by johnny
Hi Johnny,
As I’ve said in previous comments, I’m not an expert on visa requirements.
If you have an EU passport, then you will not require a visa to travel between Ireland and the UK. Otherwise, your best bet is to contact the British Embassy in Ireland who will have the information you need.
December 16th, 2010 | 4:00pm
by Jim Bliss
Never mind peak oil, or resource scarcity. I think it’s clear what really matters to the readers of your blog 🙂
December 17th, 2010 | 1:42am
by Paul
It’s a weird one Paul (and ultimately google is to blame). There are two posts on my blog that get as much traffic as every other page on the site combined. This one and the “how much CO2 is emitted per barrel of oil” article. But it’s this one that generates the vast majority of the comments.
I can understand people asking about the best way to travel between Ireland and England (after all, that’s pretty much the subject of this post) but I’m a little mystified by the numerous visa queries. I’ve done a lot of travelling in places where I needed a visa, and it’s the kind of thing you want to get official advice about, rather than rely on the opinion of some random blogger.
“But a bloke on the internet said I dodn’t need a visa” isn’t going to cut it with border control.
December 17th, 2010 | 3:03am
by Jim Bliss